The Politics of Dr Horrible's Sing-Along Blog

  • Ajoutée 19 avril 2019
  • A look back into what one cult classic musical can tell us about radicalization, entitlement, and frozen yoghurt.
    Listen to Trials & Trebuchets, a new DND podcast that I happen to be in!
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    Pop Culture Detective's video:éo.html
    Ad-break music by Zoë Blade and used with permission.
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Commentaires • 1 088

  • Sarah Z
    Sarah Z  Il y a 2 mois +749

    I need some Respect Women Froyo.
    Captions will be up either late tonight or tomorrow!

    • K'hari Jordan
      K'hari Jordan Il y a 2 moiséo.html

    • John Dee
      John Dee Il y a 2 mois

      I... Dang it I really love your videos and I just think you're great

    • Thessalin
      Thessalin Il y a 2 mois

      Hey, nice makeup!

    • Alex Smith
      Alex Smith Il y a 2 mois

      Why did I do that?
      Cause you have a sense of humor. :)

  • Empchi
    Empchi Il y a 2 heures

    I think you can like and identify with shitty, awful characters while not glorifying them. You just need some self-awareness

  • Sleep is for communists
    Sleep is for communists Il y a 2 jours

    After Bianca Devins death, this video feel different. I used to not really think this incel-y threat towards women want really there, but I was proven dead wrong

  • CountUrBlessings 117
    CountUrBlessings 117 Il y a 3 jours

    Couldnt take my eyes off that stain great video tho

  • The Italian Snob
    The Italian Snob Il y a 4 jours

    wtf is breadtube

  • Charlotte Forst
    Charlotte Forst Il y a 8 jours

    "Chad- I mean Captain Hammer"

  • Julia M.
    Julia M. Il y a 10 jours +1

    Even though I'm months late and just finding this video in my recommendations now, I just really want to thank you for putting so much time and effort into a well-thought and researched analysis of this miniseries. It's definitely something that I've been wrestling with a bit since Dr. Horrible was just about my number one hyperfixation in middle school before I grew up more and became disillusioned with my favorite relatable nerdy protagonist once I realized that - frankly - he was a creep. Seeing both viewpoints of Dr. Horrible Bad and Dr. Horrible Good really put some things into perspective for me. For my own sanity, I'd like to view the series as an imperfect commentary of entitlement and admonishing toxic masculine nerd culture (authors intent or not). The beauty of media is that no one interpretation is correct, and that you can choose to personally read media in whatever way speaks to you.
    There's also the fact that no matter how problematic something is, you can still enjoy it. No matter how problematic Billy as a character is, I can still enjoy him. Nothing you enjoy is ever going to be perfect, and that's okay.
    Also the soundtrack still slaps. Yeet.

  • P S
    P S Il y a 10 jours

    I got a wealth of depth from Penny in the story. We get glimpses of her doubting her feelings and relationship with Hammer even before he airs their sex life on stage, we can infer she likely struggled with homelessness herself at one point, or at least came close to it, with losing her job before, and giving her context for how strongly she feels about helping those in need. We can see she's not strictly an idealist, as she doesn't say or intend to say, "Everything happens for a reason," but rather that, "Everything happens," and implying that you have to deal with the hand you're dealt. She has a desire to make change rather than be content to let things happen as they may. We see her buy extra yogurt and look earnestly around for Billy in the dry cleaners while trying to sort out her own conflicting feelings about Hammer, looking for the one person who hasn't told her how happy she should be and how lucky she is and how perfect her life must be now to talk to. I saw her death as more a tragedy for her own sake than for Billy. She has a wealth of goals and dreams and ambitions of her own, likely a river of hardship and tragedy under her bridge she's been trying to move beyond, and while she didn't get credit for the shelter, she's finally made progress in one of her goals (and that seems more important to her than recognition anyway). It seems like she may even stand up for her own feelings and confront Hammer after this about his blase handling of their private life. She is in the middle of a very strong character arc.

    When she is dying, even knowing Hammer is a tool who just ran and the villain is Billy, she lets it all go. That's the tragedy of her character--she doesn't get to finish her arc, she doesn't get to die a transformed character. Penny is not the perfect girl or Strong Female Character (tm) that is expected of her role. She would rather die trying to cling to a lie and false comfort than to face reality and see the ugliness of the world. It's such a 180 from the direction she was headed, and that's what broke me. It's like the hero admitting he's scared when dying, or the villain remembering the good times in their final moments. Penny reverting into what society expects of her, that she should feel lucky and be in love and blind from it, is the tragedy of her death.

    I felt bad for Billy for other reasons, but I cried for Penny. I was actually surprised at how much she had going on in her limited screentime. And while I hate a fridged woman as much as the next, I didn't see Penny as solely a plot device. I saw her for her own character.

    On top of that, I thought narratively, Penny's death wasn't a punishment for her, but for Billy. The fact she was shown to be seeking him out specifically at the laundromat while doubting Captain Hammer, that she's obviously at least somewhat drawn to him (almost kissing him at the end of her song, recognizing him off the street as one of the laundromat goers, seeking his approval of her boyfriend and introducing her boyfriend to her friend, etc.) is emphasized specifically while Billy himself is otherwise consumed by villainy. Had he been there as himself when she needed him, had he instead turned away from his obsession and attempt to murder his nemesis and instead been there as a friend and willing ear for her, maybe Penny would have left Hammer. Maybe he would have won her over. At the very least, it's very likely he wouldn't have accidentally murdered her. So his ego and obsession was being called out, not Penny's romantic pursuits.

  • John Ramos
    John Ramos Il y a 10 jours

    Re-spec women, boobs op need nerf

  • JaredMithrandir
    JaredMithrandir Il y a 12 jours

    Why did you mention Dawn in that part? Who did she ever have sex with?

  • Stardusting
    Stardusting Il y a 13 jours

    I don't understand DHSAB to be contratictory on the point of vulnerability. It's not "is it good?" Or "is it bad?". It's balance between having some and having some power that was more ideal.

  • Antifa Turkeesian
    Antifa Turkeesian Il y a 15 jours

    As much as I enjoyed the show 11 years ago, I thought the dr horrible bad reading was the appropriate one and the defenses you gave it were cringey.

  • celestinenox
    celestinenox Il y a 15 jours +1

    "Mixed bag" is basically Joss Whedon's whole portfolio of work.

  • ItIsMeMaybe
    ItIsMeMaybe Il y a 18 jours

    Your videos are so good!

  • Zyxro
    Zyxro Il y a 19 jours

    This video got me to start watching Crazy Ex Girlfriend, and now I am at a loss of what to follow it up with now that I have all the songs stuck in my head.

  • KagamineProductions
    KagamineProductions Il y a 21 jour

    Let's not forget that Penny seems to regret her choice in romantic partner as she's sneaking away while Hammer is talking about how Penny is who he sleeps with.

  • miketothe2ndpwr
    miketothe2ndpwr Il y a 23 jours

    I hate the term "problematic" and generally the hypersensitive mentality a lot of people have. I feel like I politically disagree with you on almost everything, yet... I love your videos and learn a lot from them. Keep up the good work.

  • UngovernedReason
    UngovernedReason Il y a 23 jours

    I cam e to not watch the video...I will watch it tomorrow...Just want to say that I can't wait to here if you are a nazi feminist. or if you actually understand the message. Good guys exist...and they are villainized! We know that woman are not objects that you "put kindness in to until sex falls out". And in come the people calling a married man an incel in 5, 4, 3 ,2 ...

  • Ash Parsons
    Ash Parsons Il y a 23 jours

    YES MEGAMIND! Finally someone else appreciates it!

    TEMPEST4k Il y a 25 jours +1

    Behold the common chad, Dr Hammer and the stacy Penny. Watch as Dr Horrible descends further and further into depravity in his tradgic attempt to become the chad and win the stacy's affection. If only he knew a couple centimeters of bone were his downfall and not his own self-sabatoging sexist attitude.

  • Sprocket Sunflower
    Sprocket Sunflower Il y a 26 jours

    29:40 *Tips Fedora*

  • Maggie Green Art
    Maggie Green Art Il y a 28 jours

    Holy shit you are an incredible movie reviewer. I love the dr horrible movie and I’m so glad I found your channel! Thanks for this video my dude!

  • Bram iets
    Bram iets Il y a 29 jours

    10:30 wow wait??? you are a real live woman???

  • Arman Lopeman
    Arman Lopeman Il y a mois

    (long comment warning)
    I actually think that the theme of Dr Horrible is simply, there is a fine line to where things are taken too far.
    The best example of this is in the song "my eyes". Billy is at first shown as sympathetic, as he's lamenting Penny choosing to be with another person. He then quickly loses that sympathy the audience sees that he is, in fact, stalking penny and hammer.
    Another fine line shown is the line between confidence and arrogance.
    Throughout the musical, Billy is shown to have very little real self confidence. And many of his failures are a result of this. Captain Hammer, on the other hand, shows the exact opposite, being extremely arrogant, which also eventually leads to loss at the end (and in a way, Penny's death). Almost every time we sympathize with a character, they then do something that pushes too far, and that sympathy is lost. I think that the idea is that people will often go over the line, and then good intentions will heed bad results.

  • frankie mike
    frankie mike Il y a mois

    Where can I find this series online?

  • NinjaPirateJedi
    NinjaPirateJedi Il y a mois

    I've always loved DHSAB, and I'm glad you approached it with such complexity and nuance! For me, it was always a cautionary tale about how festering resentment leads to the loss of everything. Seeing things through Billy's lens, we only see Penny and Hammer as he perceives them - an unworthy jock, and a one-note trophy girl. We feel for Billy because we all know the feeling of not getting what we think we deserve, but I never once thought of it as an endorsement of Billy's behavior. It's his own fault for not talking to Penny all this time and not getting to know her, and if he had, they probably wouldn't have connected at all. But because he never got to that point, all his energy is misplaced and destroys him. We never got that character development on Penny because Billy never took responsibility to find out who she was. It's his own fault for losing her, and the fact that this poor woman got caught in the crossfire of it all makes it really tragic.

  • bellowingsilence
    bellowingsilence Il y a mois

    To Joss Whedon's credit at least, the fact that the likeable nerdy guy characters have their own kind of douchiness seems very much like a level of self awareness on his part, if only because a lot of that seems to be written in as very real and deliberate character flaws.

  • mia bundy
    mia bundy Il y a mois

    Never heard crazy ex girlfriend mentioned in a video beofre. Or know anyome else whos watched it. Im hapoy now 😂😂😂

    IMVADER2 Il y a mois

    I don't have an issue with this being a narrow focus on Billy, as I took this series (which tbh, always thought it was a movie cause of Netflix) as just a Vlog, with the non-Vlog parts being almost like retellings. How else is Dr. Horrible going to sing into Captain Hammer and Penny's face without them reacting and have that be normal?
    So in my eyes it never needed to focus on any other character's goals, and if characters were swip-swapped around I'd say the same thing.
    It's the story of a tragedy, and a "oh, look how tragic this was" and nothing really needs to be focused aside from that. Could they have done more than the damsel trope? Yup! But it also wasn't necessary for the overall plot.

  • fealubryne
    fealubryne Il y a mois

    While I'd largely agree with this, it does bother me to some degree that there's no mention of Penny's song. I think the combination of her song and the scenes during My Eyes flesh Penny out a little more than she's given credit for. I'm not saying she's not a fairly one-dimensional character, but her dimension is given at least a little depth once you find out that she was a lonely and sort of aimless as a child and growing up, not sure what she wanted to do with her life. The line "thinkin love was fairy tale and trouble was made only for me" suggests that she never really dated much, if at all, and possibly had a really hard time. So to that degree it makes some amount of sense that she would be very flattered when Captain Hammer started dating her. Her happiness wasn't necessarily because she enjoyed being with him, during the My Eyes scenes we see all he does is show off for her and not really pay any attention to her interests.

    Towards the end is the song So They Say, and she's very happy because the good she's trying to do is made possible thanks to the fame and popularity of Captain Hammer, which can be interpreted as him doing a kind thing for her, or as him flexing again and showing off. Even with her happiness, she has some doubts about Hammer and whether or not she actually wants to be with him, but she tries to reassure herself with the fact that everyone around her seems to think she's in a good situation, and that being with him might be the solution to her loneliness and troubles "this is perfect for me, so they say, after years of stormy sailing have I finally reached the bay?"

    Not saying that it changes most of the points about Hammer and Horrible/Billy, but Penny for sure gives some thoughts and feelings on the situation, and we get some brief glimpses into her personality. Considering how short Dr. Horrible is, and done originally in fifteen-minute segments with multiple songs it seems important to look at whatever minor character development points are available when looking critically at the story.

  • FreeTempest AUS
    FreeTempest AUS Il y a mois +1

    My takeaway from this video: Nick Offerman is fucking hot. Thanks Sarah, love the podcast.

  • TheSongwritingCat
    TheSongwritingCat Il y a mois

    "The series came out 11 years ago" I'm sorry. I had to stop the video to feel old af for a few minutes.

  • Kyle Dwight
    Kyle Dwight Il y a mois

    I lean very strongly towards Billy being the one punished by the narrative. As others have said, we're not supposed to see Penny as punished because she's just an object in the narrative, which itself is problematic. SO the narrative condemns Billy, but uses a sexist way of getting there

  • Think Lumi
    Think Lumi Il y a mois

    Do you consider all stories to be moral instruction or is that just the lens through which you choose to examine them through?

  • Martian Pudding
    Martian Pudding Il y a mois

    I don't know anything about that firing a pregnant woman incident, but if she was supposed to play a non-pregnant character what else could be done?

  • MicManGuy
    MicManGuy Il y a mois

    In other words, you don't know what a tragedy is.

  • Briandon Stark
    Briandon Stark Il y a mois

    The Trio were villains in season 6, not 5.

  • Briandon Stark
    Briandon Stark Il y a mois

    Since I'm apparently the only person that watched Age of Ultron more than once: Black Widow was not saying she was a monster because she was infertile, she was saying it because she had been physically and mentally eviscerated in service of becoming an assassin.

    Everytime people complain about this, I have to ask: If a woman were to say that her infertility makes her monstrous to you in real life, who the FUCK are you to tell her otherwise?

  • plasticmodels
    plasticmodels Il y a mois

    Buffy sleeping with Angel was made into a lesson of unconditional support by her father(figure) however, so I don't feel it's fair to include. It's such a good scene, her beating herself up about it and Giles going, maybe it was ill-advised, maybe not, that has no bearing on how hurt you are and my love for you.
    Even if your boyfriend turns out to be a monster after you sleep with him, that doesn't make you lesser or a bad person for doing it.

  • LHUMYA '
    LHUMYA ' Il y a mois

    Wow, I actually never put that much thoughts onto this show.
    I always interpreted it as Billy choosing between Penny and evil. At the start, he's a total stranger to Penny, and he's a nobody in the evil's world. Then, one day, he got a start with both. He got the chance to discuss with Penny and build a relationship with her, and he got the chance to do an act to bring the attention of Bad Horse, and has to choose. Then, as the story goes on, he got another choice with either killing Captain Hammer out of pure jealousy to become fully evil, either go back and let Penny be in this relationship and becoming friend with her. At the end, Billy made his choice for evil.
    Like, I always saw it as this, with Billy having two shots to stop going on the evil, bad ending path, and missing them.
    Now, with this analysis, I can't help but think deeper in my interpretation.
    Like, I realize now that in this interpretation, Penny is clearly more a prize, an object, than a person in herself. And I'm affraid that it's exactly it. I won't even go as far as saying that her death was a punishment for choosing the wrong guy, but a punishment for Billy choosing the wrong path. And that's it. She was no more than a prize.
    For the sensitivity part, I don't really know. In one hand, Billy losing Penny was a symbole of him losing his sensitivity and humanity to become a bad guy, and by so having the bad ending, meaning that indeed without sensitivity you can't be happy, but on the other hand, you have this part with Captain Hammer that you mentioned (and that I totally forgot about until you talked about it, to be honest), where he is shamed and laughed at for his sensitivity. I would say that this part with CH was something made for the laugh more than an actual part of what the story wanted to say, but they poorly handled this and made the story's message more confusing. Though a counterpoint could be made that it happened to show that Billy was now fully evil, by shaming his rival from the period he had still a sensibility, and CH was so much in his masculinity that he thought being sensible was a shame, and it was the most efficient way to humiliate him... and since CH has always be shown as the bad guy, the fact that he thinks his sensitivity is something humiliating is a last exemple from him of what not to do nor think?
    I don't know, I think it's too much thinking for it to actually be about that. I rest my case on a last joke that was poorly done.

    So, my conclusion is: it's a show about a guy bad choices and how sensitivity i not a bad thing, that didn't show entitlement as a good and normal thing, but poorly executed its only main female character and made one of its message confusing for the sake of a last joke. So... not awful, but not that good? Like, it'still really enjoyable, but you should not start to dig deeper than the clear message the ending gives, because it wasn't thought that deeply.

  • Caleb Symborski
    Caleb Symborski Il y a mois

    How can she miss the point of Captain Hammer's downfall so spectacularly. He's isn't mocked for his vulnerability, Hammer is mocked for his arrogance. The fact that he needs therapy isn't what's wrong with his character. His problem is that he has never faced any significant adversity yet acts as though he can handle anything.

    • Caleb Symborski
      Caleb Symborski Il y a mois

      @Arman Lopeman good to see I'm not the only one that noticed this.

    • Arman Lopeman
      Arman Lopeman Il y a mois +1

      I agree entirely, he even shouts "I THINK THIS IS WHAT PAIN FEELS LIKE!?!?" before running out the door!

  • AceOfSevens
    AceOfSevens Il y a mois

    I think your final take on Penny is correct. She clearly has a life outside of the fight between Hammer & Horrible. It just doesn't affect the plot & none of the other characters care. Straight uses of this sort of trope (see The Man Who Killed Don Quixote) they tend to not apparently have any traits beyond the the plot requirements.

  • Jonathan S
    Jonathan S Il y a mois

    Joss Whedon’s feminism ends where women’s agency begins.

  • Jonathan S
    Jonathan S Il y a mois

    Nostalgia often trumps morality by rolling over women and minorities.

  • Blondie Wise
    Blondie Wise Il y a mois

    I think Mr Horrible is acting like this because someone keeps moving his chair

  • brushfyr
    brushfyr Il y a mois

    Billy/Dr Horrible is a villain, just because he's played by Neil Patrick Harris and the series is viewed from his point of view doesn't mean we should agree with him. It's like saying people should feel bad for Hitler in Downfall.

    But I assume the story is told the way it is in part because Whedon is a fat nerdy guy, and probably grew up resenting guys like Hammer who worked out and were stoic. There are a lot of weird love stories by ugly guys where a woman falls in love with a literal monster. I loved Alan Moore's run on Swamp Thing but he's an ugly weird guy so it's not shocking he has a woman fall in love with a mass of swamp muck. While I haven't seen it from what I've heard The Shape of Water is also about a woman falling in love with a monster, and del Toro is a good filmmaker he is an obese guy.
    I can enjoy the series as much as any horror movie where the bad guys wins, such as In the Mouth of Madness because it's a story and I'm not rooting for the bad guys, it's just a journey I'm going on. it's not something fun like Star Wars or Lord of the Rings where the heroes fight and defeat the evil overlord in the end.
    I do remember thinking it was odd how people embraced Dr Horrible's character at the time as if he was the hero, and not just the protagonist. But at the time a lot of people worshipped Whedon so anyone who questioned any aspect of the story would have been shouted down. It is like having a slasher flick where the slasher is seen as a sympathetic misunderstood person who just wants to be love at not a evil psycho killer.
    But in the end it was just a silly series that we should look to much into unless we want to look into the sad mind of Whedon and his issues.
    I just thought the Penny's death can be taken in many ways. I don't know what the creators intended but I didn't take it that she was punished for not dating Billy and should have dated him. I think it just shows that Billy was going to ruin everything in his live and other's lives because he was so selfish. It's not impossible that if she dated him that she wouldn't have died because on him in some other way, such as touching something in his apartment that's part of a death trap and dying, or him getting enraged when she comes home late and chocking her to death. We don't know what would have happened if she dated Billy, we just know because Billy was a narcist his actions lead to her death.

  • James L
    James L Il y a mois

    A "romantic" story about a stalker who murders his victim. Whedon is really messed up, and certainly a peculiar sort of "feminist".
    As to your final question, the problem is that this endeavor tries to have it both ways. Which is often true of Whedon.

  • Alex Wright
    Alex Wright Il y a mois

    Yeah I've often thought Xander is a bit of an author surrogate.

  • Alex Wright
    Alex Wright Il y a mois

    Only heard of this sing-a-long a few months ago in Neil Patrick Harris' choose-your-own adventure autobiography, which I mainly bought because of Bandersnatch reminding me of the genre.
    Thought the musical was alright, annoyed when Penny was killed though.

  • Mike Andrews
    Mike Andrews Il y a mois

    Hi. I wandered on to this video, and I'd like to offer some respectful constructive criticism, because the conclusion felt a little wishy washy.
    One way to reach a more definitive conclusion is to look at the choices that were made. We see time and time again criticisms of Billy included (particularly it's interesting how his blog establishes him as an unreliable narrator).
    Anyway, to avoid rambling, I think example after example can be found in the text illustrating it is designed to be subversive. But the way to reconcile inconsistencies is to argue while it was designed to be subversive, that does not mean it was effective (in particular, I think Neil Patrick Harris was miscast because he is too charismatic and likeable for the role).

  • John Johnson
    John Johnson Il y a mois

    Credits song is It's Near by Dj Quads. I think you should include this in the video description.

  • El Cmn de buenavista
    El Cmn de buenavista Il y a mois +1

    Actually, if you like having NPH as a singing-super villain, you should check Batman: The Brave and The Bold's episode "Mayhem of the Music Meister".
    Long story short, NPH is a supervillain who can control people by singing. And I love it.

    Great video, btw!

  • Tom Forsyth
    Tom Forsyth Il y a mois

    I haven't seen any variant of my take-away from DHSAB mentioned in the comments, so I thought I'd write it down (sorry for length!). There's plenty of people saying Billy and Hammer are the two "sides" vying for Penny's love, but narratively that's not the axis of symmetry at all.
    There's only one actual character here - Billy. The other two are not characters - they're shallow NPCs that have an initial character sheet, but then the DM steers them around in fairly simple ways to make plot points. Neither of them do anything interesting or novel or have any real agency at all. One is the absolute epitome of overblown eye-rolling brute masculinity (dick jokes!) and the other is overblown eye-rolling soft femininity (petitions!). They're exactly equal opposites. Billy's reaction to them is also basically the same - one he must instinctively have, the other he must instinctively destroy - even before he knows who they are as people. Because they're not people.
    They might be kinda maybe based on real people, but this isn't the real world. This is the world seen through Billy's eyes - he's our narrator - it's in the title - it's HIS blog. So of course they're not real characters, because he is incapable of seeing them as anything but paragons. And so neither can we, except through little bits of colour here and there that leak through Billy's filter.
    Sarah's video goes into good detail about why Penny's not a real person (at least through the eyes that we're using). But all the same points apply to Hammer. And it's blatantly lampshaded with things like the line about not going to the gym - even Hammer knows he's not a real person. And as pointed out - same with them both having their names stolen. And Billy does his fair share of actively robbing both "characters" of their agency (e.g. Hammer doesn't get to stop the speeding van). Again with the symmetry!
    I see the whole thing as a fable. Penny and Hammer aren't characters - they're the angel and devil sitting on Billy's shoulders. Or maybe they're Yin and Yang with a bit of Oedipus thrown in. They are parts of his potential future personality that he aspires to. He's a little boy trying to grow - to be more masculine (defeat Hammer with force) and/or to be more feminine (win Penny with love). But he struggles to do either - his violent plans distract him from his romantic ones and vice versa - so he ends up being terrible at both. Instead of finding a sensible middle path, he finds... the League! They offer the solution to both problems. It is of course a really bad solution, but... boys. And so the NPCs stumble to their tragic inevitable ends once Billy makes his bad choices and exerts his incompetent agency. He loses both along with any chance of them becoming real facets of his personality - something he seems to realize at the end.
    There's a nice feature of the ending that sells the above "mirror" theory for me as being intentional by the authors (not that it's required, but it's nice to have). Nominally, Billy is trying to bend both NPCs to his will - one violently, the other emotionally. And he actually succeeds with both, but because of his bumbling it's the wrong way round. Killing Penny is indeed a standard trope. But subduing Hammer emotionally is not a trope - it's surprising and rather shoehorned into the plot - but it's required to maintain that mirror symmetry between the two NPCs all the way to the end.

  • TheMovieSequelDude49
    TheMovieSequelDude49 Il y a mois

    As someone who loves this movie, I really appreciate your take on it. While I do disagree with some parts of it, I overall enjoyed the deep dive that went into this. It is weird looking at Joss Whedon's work knowing some of the uncomfortable details about the man. The man prided himself a feminist and there were definitely elements of that in his work. But there were also clear problematic elements of his work that becomes more clear given the shady stuff Joss has done. I mean just look at his proposed script for a Wonder Woman movie to see how sexist his writing can get. Still the man has made some great works and that deserves recognition and appreciation in spite of their problematic elements and the questionable authorial intent of them.

  • Theo Smith
    Theo Smith Il y a mois

    It's less that there are contradictions than life is just complicated. Both Billy and Hammer are examples of negative characteristics. The narrative clearly shows that both are negative examples of entitlement and toxic masculinity. Also, Penny *does* have agency. She chooses what she does, and in the context of the story, who to date. Yes she is treated like a trophy for both Billy and Hammer, but it's not presented as a good thing. The end result is Penny dies and neither Billy nor Hammer get what they want. You talk about disliking authorial intent, but then get stuck on a story having a singular or small group of meanings. There are as many interpretations of a work as there are people. Also, hand-wringing about how problematic something from the past is, is not particularly useful. Art needs to be judged for its own sake on its own terms. If authorial intent isn't the way to go, then external moral judgments aren't either. That's not to say that you can't dislike something because of some noxious factor that isn't considered moral or acceptable anymore, it just means that you can't say that art is better or worse for it. Just critique and enjoy a work without worrying about whether the rabid crowd likes it or not.

  • Hammyez
    Hammyez Il y a mois

    He didn't say Black Widow was a monster it was an internal conflict that she thought she was lol

  • Cragillahan
    Cragillahan Il y a mois

    One thing you didn't touch on when discussing the minimalisation of Penny's death; although you did say it was at an event to honour her work, she was furthermore sidelined by the fact that it was pretty much a Captain Hammer event, hell they were even about to unveil a statue of him. All in all though, 10/10 video! I've always loved Dr Horrible and this analysis can help me enjoy it more thoroughly :)

  • Ted Sava
    Ted Sava Il y a 2 mois

    "captain hammer will save us" _broke me_

  • MongolPSR
    MongolPSR Il y a 2 mois

    I feel like we watched 2 different films.

  • Doc Acher
    Doc Acher Il y a 2 mois

    Megamind was 👌👌👌

  • Shahruz Ghaemi
    Shahruz Ghaemi Il y a 2 mois

    Good good anime tropes? Whoah Nellie hold on

  • Dave Katzin
    Dave Katzin Il y a 2 mois

    You mentioned Black Widow's "monster" speech from Age of Ultron and I feel like that one gets a rough shake. I mean, it's not his best work, true, but I think the issue with that one lies in the gap between intent and execution. My read on it was that she was trying to tell Banner that she is a monster like him because the Red Room (sidebar, I'm not going to pretend to be Black Widow expert but I am utterly fascinated by the fact that it looks like a ballet academy. Is every fight scene she's in just a high stakes dance-off for her?!) trained her to be a killer and infertility was a by-product. I mean, yeah that mental association is hella problematic, but in the context of the scene, I think her intent was to reassure Bruce that they wouldn't have to worry about possibly conceiving a child born with gamma radiation.
    It kind of makes me regret that She-Hulk doesn't exist in the MCU because it would render the whole point moot because she is the gold standard of proving that living with gamma radiation and being a Hulk in the Marvel Universe doesn't inherently make you an uncontrollable giant rage monster. I mean, why rampage and ruin your clothes every time you lose your temper when you can have a snarky fourth wall-breaking workplace sitcom instead?

  • David Howe
    David Howe Il y a 2 mois

    I recommend you just avoid the phrase toxic masculinity since there is so much baggage around it. I appreciated your disclaimer though and really enjoyed the analysis all around!

  • David Howe
    David Howe Il y a 2 mois

    Lol yeah Dr. Horrible seems like a bit of an incel hero now that I think about it!

  • Ryuk Is god
    Ryuk Is god Il y a 2 mois

    “I think there a type of person who will see a shitty nerd character and identify with them no matter what.”
    Does Warren from Buffy have stans I wonder...

  • Lanae Ancell
    Lanae Ancell Il y a 2 mois

    Kenny Hammerstein

  • A.R.
    A.R. Il y a 2 mois

    I'd argue that it's not *totally* contradictory w/r/t how it treats their approaches to vulnerability, but rather portrays them (in an incredibly abbreviated way, as with most of the series) as a kind of duality: Billy self-identifies as Billy, *not* as Dr. Horrible. When he puts on his persona it's to quell his insecurities, to put himself in the 'right' mindset (thus setting himself up for failure, as he shows that he's not really villain material without it), and ultimately to 'put on his suit of armor' and hide what makes him vulnerable. Captain Hammer identifies as Captain Hammer: as far as he's concerned, his insecurities and vulnerabilities are so far behind him that he can't see them anymore (if he ever could) - he needs no suit of armor because he *is* his suit of armor, he has no higher aspirations beyond being Captain Hammer to the fullest. In the end, both fall from their 'grace' in the same way but opposite directions: the person they identify themselves as being is stripped away from them, as all of Billy's fears come to pass and he's forced to become the villain persona which he deliberately designed to be someone who he is not and discovers that he cannot feel truly fulfilled as, while Captain Hammer's literal and metaphorical invincibility is shattered and leaves him with no clear identity in its wake.

  • AgentNein
    AgentNein Il y a 2 mois

    I’m sorry I had to pause the video almost exactly halfway through to go grab froyo.

  • Wiebke G
    Wiebke G Il y a 2 mois

    I'm a tiny girl who enjoys chopping wood. So they can' get me with that line. But tbh it's great fun so let out energy while cutting wood.

  • Remix Dragon
    Remix Dragon Il y a 2 mois

    What I hear in the beginning is he did some good shit in his work and bad shit In his work.